Cliff’s LIst 7/02/2002

Below is another vintage Cliff’s list newsletter. I have so much fun reading these I thought I would continue posting them randomly. There is always valuable info you can pick up from reading these.


This past weekend Mystery held the first of his two Montreal
Workshops. There were only 6 attendees plus myself as we were grilled in
the concepts of the Mystery Method and Group Theory, and watched the master
himself in action. Mystery’s Method is basically to go out and be an
entertainer, start conversational threads, tell jokes, do magic tricks,
etc. in a continuous enthusiastic manner. It is really quite an eye-opener
to watch him work his way through a crowd (4 sets, 8 sets, 15 sets, etc. as
he calls them), neg his target, find out how the people in the group know
each other, then isolate the target and move to a close. His system is
very linear and methodical despite any appearance to the contrary. While
the high energy act like you are on stage may be a paradigm shift for most
(it was for me), it works and works really well. As Mystery says, this is
designed to get you the “10’s”, the hottest women out there. Women are
looking for strength, confidence, fun and this gives it all to them and in
an indirect way. You launch into your routines similarly to how a comedian
does his act – you just start talking as if you already know who you are
talking to and take the lead. You are constantly leading but your words
are not personal (i.e. unlike a direct method, you do not expose your
interest in the woman. You entertain her – once you’ve worked your way
through all the people, including guys, that are between you and her – and
she lights up and gives you IOI’s (Indications Of Interest). Three IOI’s
and you can move in for a kiss close (this is a rule!). Mystery attracted
a lot of attention just from his appearance – being 6’5″ and wearing five
inch platform shoes made him stand out in every crowd, not to mention the
tight leather pants, the red and black zebra striped cowboy hat, the black
nails (one of his favourite openers is to just slap his hand on the table
of the group he approaches and say “First impression: not the big hand,
the black nails” and start his conversations from there). Mystery has been
doing this consistently for some time now and has a real understanding of
the dynamics of this method. In many ways, it’s easier to do than many of
the other strategies out there because it is indirect, because you are just
having fun, and you can always eject from a group if the target is not
available or uninterested (the former happens often because you can easily
be talking to her in front of her boyfriend, but the latter is actually
quite rare). Three nights up to 5 a.m. were a stretch for me and I have to
apologize for my intermittent dozing during the debriefings that started at
3 a.m. My personal thoughts on this is that it is a great method, one that
will help people no matter what they want to accomplish in life – you don’t
have to have women as your goal, you can just go out and meet tons of
people for whatever reasons or no reasons because it is fun. I was
somewhat hesitant to do a lot of approaches because I kind of felt like I
was being thrown on stage without having my act fully memorized. This was
not a problem for the other guys – in fact, Phoeniks turned the Photo
Routine into a heavy make out session with a hot blonde he had just met
right in the middle of Prince Arthur Street, right in front of her
friends! Mystery and his wing Chris Powles collected a ton of phone
numbers and there is no doubt in my mind that they could have closed
several of those girls if they weren’t in the middle of running the
workshop. Mystery was “harassed” at one point on Crescent Street by two
lesbians who were rather persistent in their request to having him come
back to their place for a threesome. I think if they were better looking
the workshop might have been put on hold! I am hoping some of the other
guys who attended will share their thoughts on the weekend, which continued
on Sunday with when

We were 8 out for dim sum in Montreal’s Chinatown this past Sunday and
Mystery and Chris Powles met David. Also in attendance was NightLight9,
No. 9, MTL_PUA, and Jason. David was in good form, explaining a number of
his ideas about women (some I don’t remember hearing before) and how to get
and keep them. Mystery seemed to pick up a few ideas and may even drop in
on the David Seminar being held this coming weekend. A lot of good ideas
were thrown around among the noodles and egg tarts and maybe one of you who
was there can add in some more details.


How does one better manage a post-close HB to a pivot or eject her entirely
while minimizing her emotional reactions to feeling demoted? For example,
HB1 is no longer satisfying, so I up the REQUIREMENTS for being with me
like… swallowing–> fucking –> 3-some. HB1 refuses to comply to the new
terms. I decide that the effort to reframe her state is greater than the
reward so she gets demoted and continue on with the next satellite.
Normally, I let them manage their own state and some will flake and
interfere with my game or demonstrate stalker behaviour. I would like some
constructive feedback on successful approaches on how one lowers the
likelihood of this happening. My set up is that I have one primary, and 5
satellites. All know of each other and their position. There is no
interaction between them. Pivots or potential recruits are made aware of
the set up and must CHOOSE to accept the terms.


> Daniel: … I’d like a little advice on a bit of a delicate situation.
I am currently in a play and have developed good rapport with my leading
lady. I seem to attract/intrigue at least a couple of the chorus but it’s
the female lead whom I want. Now, I want to handle this covertly, as any
move I make may be misinterpreted as me taking advantage of the obviously
privileged position I am in; me being her lover on the stage, and me
wanting to transform the role into actuality. I’m currently coming up with
ways to straight out handle this, as I seem to be getting IOIs a lot, but
one can never be sure and this is like a hit and miss situation. Usually I
wouldn’t be so worried over one girl or situation, but if you knew her
guys…you’d understand. Anyway, any advice you have time for would be much

Uriah: Forget about the forwards. Sweating small stuff like that makes you
seem like a woman, all concerned about shit that DOESN’T MATTER. I know
you’ll respond, “hey, it’s no big deal to me really.” But the point is that
you’re wasting clock cycles on stuff that will never make you happier or
get you closer to your goals, or even bring you great pleasure.
I was a theatre minor in college. I know your deal with the leading lady,
and I’ve seen it play out several times.
My advice: in your free time with the girl, friendly, witty, sexual talk is
in order. If she pursues you, then you’re golden. Do NOT pursue any further
than this during the production! It may compromise your theatre reputation,
your enjoyment of the time spent with her, and the quality of the
production if things aren’t good between you. If the performances are
getting close, this is even more true.
If she doesn’t actively make sure you know she wants to bang you, you just
have to wait for the cast party.
If that doesn’t float your boat, then just bang some chorus girls. Make
sure you don’t play their emotions if you expect to have any chance of
doing other girls in the production, since this stuff goes around like
A good mindset might be one of being a “cool, great guy” who happens to
appreciate casual sex (if you want to retain a chance at your target, you
need to make sure the chorus girls understand that it’s casual sex, and
your target can’t be too uptight). As the lead, you have the undisputed
belt o’ cool, so you should be able to make this happen.


Maximillian Hell: I don’t read Italian, but I bet there is some great
stuff here! “Seduzionerapida,” does that mean “speed seduction?”

Gatto: Yes, it’s an Italian based Yahoo group on seduction. But contents
are veeery poor. Lots of AFC stuff. They’re trying to emulate the American
resources, but they are falling very short.
The translations (of patterns and stuff) are really bad. [Italians = PUAs]
is not true in my experience.


I sincerely believe in David’s philosophy and way of dealing with women
from what I’ve read one here about him (be a MAN, don’t worry what she’s
thinking, etc.) I REALLY think this is great stuff….really, and how it
preserves your self respect and pride (by not supplicating)…WHICH IS
GREAT…but my question is, does this necessarily give you the BEST RESULTS?

Cliff’s Comment: I am learning that you have to do what works for you. I
took Mystery’s workshop this weekend and his way is very different from
David but it works. I don’t think it would work for David though, and I am
pretty sure Mys would not use David’s methods of meeting
people. Personally, I think the ideal is to use the right tactic for each
individual situation – that means if it calls for, say an SS move, do
that. If it calls for Group Theory, do that.

Firas: Protecting your morals, and self worth are very important I agree,
but what I mean is, do David’s tactics give you the kinds of results and
women that you want? Maybe you want the girl that might take a little
longer to get, for example. Will these methods help with that in the long run?

Cliff’s Comment: David’s methods will work on almost any woman in the way
he does things, as does Mystery’s. But neither of them has 100% success
and I don’t think that is really possible. You are always going to run
into someone who is either married or having personal problems and who is
not at that moment receptive to meeting someone – you shouldn’t think that
there’s a “magic bullet” to answer everything. The solution is to develop
yourself as much as you can and do the best you can in each situation.
Mystery says that each new day he is in some ways back to square one.

Firas: Do you see what I’m saying?? I can live my life as David outlines
agree that’s great. But do these tactics HELP you to GET LAID more (not
just to retain your control and self respect) as opposed to SS, MM,
DYD??..which is what we’re all here for anyways, right…to get laid? You
see what I mean?? I guess you can say I’m very good at what I do right
now, so will being this way HELP me to get laid MORE? And more necessarily
with the women I WANT and DESIRE?? Just asking…

Cliff’s Comment: I certainly saw that Mystery’s way will get you the
hottest women. David’s relentless way is such that when he used to go out,
he was going out to get laid and there was no two ways about that. He
would go out, pick up two women, bring them back, do them, take their
numbers and bring them back and then go out and pick up more. He would
often do two or three a night. The key is to find what works for you, what
you are comfortable with, and what fits your style. I think there are
common elements to these methods, such as confidence, strength of
personality, being talkative, being warm and cold at the right times, etc.
and the more you learn the better off you will be.


Big Ron:
A friend and I started into Speed Seduction about 8 to 10 months ago and I
think that having him as a wingman has brought us both further than we
would have come alone. There is something called PAIR on the website that I signed up for and found some other
people interested in getting together to talk about SS and practice our
skills. Right now we are 4 strong and all helping each other out with our
experiences and doing a lot of field work. If there is someone in the
Dallas/Fort Worth area that is interested in joining with us they can
contact me at The more people we have working
together the better we all will become.


I have a question about a intruder. A while ago I was talking to a young
gal and she was really into what I was saying from a pattern. This guy who
was kinoing her off and on over the past few weeks at this bar came up and
put his hands behind her and around her waist. It didn’t seem to disrupt
the youngin, but it made me uncomfortable since it was an obvious cock
block. I know it is important to isolate, but in situations where someone
slips in, what do you suggest? Ask the guy to leave politely or just ask
the girl to follow me somewhere else?

Cliff’s Comment: This is a good question and I’d like to hear responses
from the guys out there with their solutions. In my experience, guys who
will do this may be ready for a fight so you have to be prepared if you
intend to step in in any way. This is clearly a situation where he is
claiming his territory and you are the enemy. My first thought would be to
befriend the guy – turn the situation around and make him your buddy. Once
he’s been disarmed and charmed, the girl will be impressed, too.


Simple Trick Tells You if a Girl Wants You to Kiss Her

Do girls leave you confused as to whether or not they like you?

Let's face it. Girl's don't make it easy for you. She will often send mixed signals leaving you unable to tell if she is being friendly or flirty. If you read her signals wrong you risk rejection and embarrassment. Or worse, you blow it with a girl who wanted to kiss you.

Here is a simple and innocent move that will instantly tell you if you're in the friend zone, or if she's waiting for you to kiss her.

img  We respect your email privacy


About Bobby Rio I'm Bobby Rio, one of the founders of TSB. I tend to write about what is on my mind so you'll find a mix of self development, social dynamics and dating articles/experiences.  For a collection of some of my favorite articles check them out.