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Yahoo Groups March 21 2006 “How to Handle Obtuse Girls”

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 11:28:59 -0000
From: “s_syedshakeel”
Subject: how shld 1 make a lastin impression when he goes out and women’s mind?

hello all
this is my first date and this is my experience.i am just am seeing
this beautiful women who has a lot of attitude and tries to avoid me
by showin interest in others. however i know its just to challenge me
further. how do i raise the tempo and i am not humorous, so how should
i proceed to handle this and be humorous.

thanks guys

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Message: 2
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 21:17:06 -0000
From: “wetlazer”
Subject: How to handle obtuse girls.

I am in a local singles group and I am trying to figure out what
approach I should use, if any, on this girl. Either its not worth the
trouble or I need a better strategy.

Quite a while ago I asked this girl out and she shut me down.
Around that same period of time I emailed her a note. I completely
forgot about the note. Then, a few months later she IMs me and
says “What gave you the right to write a note to me?”

I said I wrote it months ago why don’t you just forget it.
Then she says I don’t know anything about her. She starts listing
reasons we should not date.

I said she didn’t know me either, and next time she saw me why not
just kick me in the nuts. So, I dropped the whole deal. A long time
passed and all of a sudden she is being nice to me.

When I post to the group she says nice things. Then, a couple days
ago I post to see if anyone wants to see this one movie. She asks
what theatre I am going to because she has just rented the movie.

I included some actual quotes for clarity.

———————————–

I emailed her directly and said:
“Why did you ask about the movie?
Did you want to come along and see it?”

She said:
“I can’t Saturday night, I have to attend the xxxxx gala. Since I
have it on DVD I will probably just watch it at home Sunday, but
thanks for the invite. Have fun!”

(Thing is I didn’t actually invite her.)

I said her event would be more exciting.

She answered:
“Obviously you have never had to wear an evening gown,
high heels and smile pretty all night.
A movie and dinner sounds much more enjoyable!”

Then I said
(yes, I sound wimpy, but I wanted to see how she would react)

I answered:
“No, I have never had to do those things.
I would however, and this is just me letting my
imagination wonder, certainly have enjoyed an evening
spent at such an affair, with you.”

“I am certain you looked ravishing. Now, so that I do
not offend. This was merely a very pleasant thought.
Not an inference, not a come on, not an invitation.”

“So, please don’t rain on my very pleasant thought
parade.)”

And she answered:

“I didn’t take it any negative way. And I am going to even take the
compliment and thank you! (though I will admit, this particular
evening I did look fabulous!)”

———————————-

So, my question to the group is..
Am I getting anywhere, or is this girl just toying with me.
Building her self esteem by trying to make me chase her.

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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:04:06 +1100
From: “Hart, Simon”
Subject: RE: How to handle obtuse girls.

>>So, my question to the group is.. Am I getting anywhere, or is this girl
just toying with me. Building her self esteem by trying to make me chase
her.

I have personally stopped thinking this way.

Why? (And many guys here may disagree with me). Because remember the great
mantra:

ATTRACTION ISN’T A CHOICE.

Well that works both ways. If you are doing things wrong, she can’t help not
liking you, and if you do things right, she can’t help liking you.

The problem is that if you’ve proved to her you’re a wuss and ‘flicked the
switch’ in her, then it’s a major pain in the arse to flip it back. But it
can be done, but it takes effort to blur her initial impression of you and
reframe it – the only way I know to do this is show her many conflicting
sides of your nature and be reframing it all the time. To flick the switch
back you also need a ton of social proof around you from other girls.

So I’d say that you are in the very very very early stages of attraction. If
nothing happens, she wasn’t necessarily toying with you, you were probably
just doing things wrong.

Like look at it this way:

GIRLS TOYING WITH US – This is the ultimate EVIL right boys?

I say no.

She will only toy with you out of interest, no matter how dim and weak. She
will not toy with you if she thinks you are utterly repulsive. Think of the
kitten with the ball of wool. It will leave it and walk off when it ceases
to be of interest.

So you are currently of MILD interest. Perhaps VERY MILD interest. Is that
her fault?

I learned this by watching how I was toying with girls myself – particularly
one girl who was basically doing the wussy stuff to me, and letting it be
known she has fallen for me hard etc, was acting WEIRD just like a “nice
guy” does. She turned me off (or was not turning me on), but I still toyed
with her for ages. WHY? Am I evil? No, because she kind of interested me and
I’m toying with her to see if she will behave in a sexy way instead of a
wuss way, then the game can be on. Like I was hoping she would FIRE UP!

So I’m stalling, waiting, toying. There’s NO WAY I’m going to commit further
than that unless she can turn me on sexually, because it feels creepy to
enter it.

If something else turned up I would of course leave her in an instant and
pursue the more interesting object, which in fact I did eventually do – but
I gave her heaps of chances to get her shit together but she just couldn’t
manage it.

She probably thinks I’m an asshole who was playing games with her to feed my
ego – but in fact I was WAITING for her to behave in a PROPER MANNER.

Guys, this is what I think is going on when you are in that place where you
think she is “toying with you”.

SURE she may be getting a kick out of your interest and it will be feeding
her vanity – but you have to ask yourself WHY YOU?????

So basically my point is that it is not good to eject on a girl because you
think she is “toying with you” – it means you have SOME kind of mild thread
of interest.

S

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Message: 4
Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2006 23:19:15 -0000
From: “David Caswell”
Subject: Re: How to handle obtuse girls.

— In seduction_dating@yahoogroups.com, “wetlazer” wrote:

> Then I said
> (yes, I sound wimpy, but I wanted to see how she would react)
>
> I answered:
> “No, I have never had to do those things.
> I would however, and this is just me letting my
> imagination wonder, certainly have enjoyed an evening
> spent at such an affair, with you.”

Are you just trying to tell her how easy you are? Why tell her about
your imagination?

> “I am certain you looked ravishing. Now, so that I do
> not offend. This was merely a very pleasant thought.
> Not an inference, not a come on, not an invitation.”

Why would you say something like this to her? She said she didn’t want
to go out with you, and it sounds like you’re trying to tell her that
one comment about her dressing up makes you want to fantasize about her.

She doesn’t even have to be in the same room with you, and already
you’re thinking pleasant thoughts and sharing them with her. And you
express it by complementing her and apologizing to her in the same
sentence. I always think of the same question. What famous character
do you enjoy? Could you imagine James Bond, or Don Juan saying “I
definitely won’t try to come on to you. I prefer to just fantasize
home alone.”

> So, my question to the group is..
> Am I getting anywhere, or is this girl just toying with me.
> Building her self esteem by trying to make me chase her.

No it sounds you’re toying with her. Everytime you create a little
interest you pour cold water on her attraction. What possible reason
do you have for acting like she’s better than you are? That doesn’t
attract women. It really sounds like everytime she gets close you push
her away.

What is your plan with this women? What have you asked her to do, and
what’s been her answer? Why are you waiting for her to answer
broadcast emails to some group? Be the man!

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Message: 5
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 10:35:17 +1100
From: “Hart, Simon”
Subject: I’m stuck in my seduction, advice please!

I have reached a point where I’m stuck in my current seduction (or have
become lost in it like in a labyrinth). This is one I’ve been working on for
ages, and yesterdays wedding that I went to was a major success (I think).
Here’s the lowdown (LONG POST, SORRY, BUT ITS ALL IN THE DETAILS):

The target is ‘I’ – and she is a virgin, and a party girl. Very intelligent,
very socially savvy, but never been with a guy.

I stuffed it up at the start ages ago by being wussy and she treated me like
dirt in return, but she has always hung around and toyed with me, ala my
previous post. I’ve been reframing it like a maniac for ages and finally got
her chasing me again.

She is at LEAST now confused about what I am.

So yesterdays wedding – and I go there with my two lesbian friends (M & K,
who are also targets if the opportunity arises).

Firstly, I was the best dressed guy there by miles, and ‘I’ loves fashion.
All the guys wore the typical black suit but I copied my outfit by watching
what Brad Pitt and George Clooney wear in Oceans 11, and I looked a whole
level of coolness above the rest.

I generally busted on ‘I’ the whole time, and made her laugh and the people
on our table laugh. One of my best moments was when she got up to go to the
ladies and was a little tipsy, and in a dead serious tone I said “‘I’, if
you fall over I will never speak to you again.” The whole table laughed, and
she said “Oh there’s a lot riding on this then!”

I made up a game at one point where I leaned over and said “Who’s hotter, M
or K?” – She was totally into this, and we did it by comparing everyone in
the room. Then when it was time to dance, she said “I can’t do partner
dancing!” I tried to encourage her, but she wouldn’t budge, so I grabbed M
and we danced in a very seductive way that raised eyebrows from all sides,
and then I would swap with K and dance with her.

I did not dance with ‘I’ for the rest of the day, only with M & K. ‘I’
basically got blown off the dance floor and went to sit on her own with her
back to me. M said “that’s a good sign, she is ignoring you.”

So after a while I sat down with her and she said she was not enjoying
herself. I said “what happened?” and she said “I think I fell out of love
with someone.” She would not tell me who, so I acted like it was a game of
guessing who it was, and picking out gross guys.

We chatted more about relationships. Then I danced again with M & K. So it
went for the whole day – I was the f__king man, with hot lesbians on my arm,
and she danced alone or else sulked or hung out with the girls.

Then when it was time to leave, she went to leave without saying bye to me
so I sauntered outside and said “Leaving?”

I gave her a hug but did not let go, and we chatted a little (still holding
on). Then I did the old trick of looking from her eyes to her lips and she
said “I can’t kiss you – I feel confused!”

So I said “Well put your arms around my neck and don’t let go.” She did.
Then I was kissing her on her neck and sucking her earlobes. She looked at
me again and said again “I can’t kiss you, I’m too confused.”

I smiled and said “That’s such bullshit” and kissed her more on her neck.
Then her hot friend turned up and (I could have kissed her for this) she
gave me a big hug and said “You’re GORGEOUS!” right in front of ‘I’.

And off they went. ‘I’ looked back at me with a puzzled look on her face and
then walked away.

—- END OF REPORT.

SO………. what the hell? I’m lost! As far as I can tell I did everything
right and made no mistakes. But I’m not sure what she meant by “I can’t kiss
you, I’m confused.”

Is that a test? Punishment for my outrageous flirting with M & K? The switch
isn’t quite flipped back from the old wuss days?

And I have no idea what to do next. I’m thinking I should now do a ‘take
away’ for a whole week and let that all sink into her.

Any thoughts?

S

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Message: 6
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 00:16:47 -0000
From: “miles0029”
Subject: Re: How to handle obtuse girls.

No, you haven’t yet completely blown it but are on your way if you
keep trying to qualify yourself to her. The constant compliments are
just throwing you into the friend zone. You need to make her believe
you are the prize here.

When you asked about the movie, it was good. Simple, to the point, and
not begging. You should have stopped after she told you to have a good
time. Always leave on the pinnacle of a conversation. You may not
believe that to be a pinnacle, but seeing as how she treated you like
shit before and now she’s being nicer, don’t give her the chance to be
a bitch again.

Try to play some mind games with her. Push and pull stuff. Don’t
continually qualify yourself to her, and not so much compliments. Try
a few negs here and there to feel her out. If she starts with the
bitchy stuff again. Drop her.

Miles

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Message: 7
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 00:31:54 -0000
From: “David Caswell”
Subject: Re: I’m stuck in my seduction, advice please!

— In seduction_dating@yahoogroups.com, “Hart, Simon”
wrote:

> SO………. what the hell? I’m lost! As far as I can tell I did
everything
> right and made no mistakes. But I’m not sure what she meant by “I
can’t kiss
> you, I’m confused.”
>
> Is that a test? Punishment for my outrageous flirting with M & K?
The switch
> isn’t quite flipped back from the old wuss days?
>
> And I have no idea what to do next. I’m thinking I should now do a ‘take
> away’ for a whole week and let that all sink into her.
>
> Any thoughts?

First, your previous post, is dead-on accurate, great job!

I hear her saying that she has not had you in the romantic category
and now she’s kissing you. That doesn’t feel normal to her — so far.

Regarding takeaway: Are you going to run into her again sometime? Or
are you in the awkward situation that if you want to see her that
you’ll have to initiate something? If it’s the latter I don’t think
you gain much by waiting some predetermined takeaway amount of time.

I think that there’s a fair chance that next time you see her you’ll
have to start over at the beginning again.

Is there some reason that doing the obvious thing and asking out M & K
is not okay?

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Message: 8
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 12:35:11 +1100
From: “Hart, Simon”
Subject: RE: Re: I’m stuck in my seduction, advice plea se!

>>I hear her saying that she has not had you in the romantic category
and now she’s kissing you. That doesn’t feel normal to her — so far.

Yep, I hear that. I think it is like a spanner in the works.

>>Regarding takeaway: Are you going to run into her again sometime? Or
are you in the awkward situation that if you want to see her that
you’ll have to initiate something? If it’s the latter I don’t think
you gain much by waiting some predetermined takeaway amount of time.

No I see her regularly because we both attend this yoga/meditation place at
least once a week. To do a take-away I have to skip some time there, act
mysterious. I did this the weekend before last and she was very quizzical as
to where I had been.

>>I think that there’s a fair chance that next time you see her you’ll have
to start over at the beginning again.

Hmmm… Yeah I think that in terms of actually scoring her I have to wait
for another opportunity like the wedding and then try to fully close the
deal. But yesterday was good groundwork I think for next time.

>>Is there some reason that doing the obvious thing and asking out M & K is
not okay?

Yesterday M told me flat out that she has discussed having a threesome with
K, and that K is not up for it, but she said that she is “working on it.” –
The thing with that situation is I get on brilliantly with M, like we are
made for each other. If she broke up with K, I’d be dating her in about 2
seconds and I think that feeling is mutual. Just gotta wait on that one. But
I DID do a lot of work on K on the dance floor, trying to get her to start
thinking about me sexually.

S

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Message: 9
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 01:35:19 -0000
From: “kumadakochi”
Subject: Re: I’m stuck in my seduction, advice please!

— In seduction_dating@yahoogroups.com, “Hart, Simon”
wrote:
>
>
> I have reached a point where I’m stuck in my current seduction (or have
> become lost in it like in a labyrinth). This is one I’ve been
working on for
> ages, and yesterdays wedding that I went to was a major success (I
think).
> Here’s the lowdown (LONG POST, SORRY, BUT ITS ALL IN THE DETAILS):
>
> The target is ‘I’ – and she is a virgin, and a party girl. Very
intelligent,
> very socially savvy, but never been with a guy.
>
> I stuffed it up at the start ages ago by being wussy and she treated
me like
> dirt in return, but she has always hung around and toyed with me, ala my
> previous post. I’ve been reframing it like a maniac for ages and
finally got
> her chasing me again.
>
> She is at LEAST now confused about what I am.
>
> So yesterdays wedding – and I go there with my two lesbian friends
(M & K,
> who are also targets if the opportunity arises).
>
> Firstly, I was the best dressed guy there by miles, and ‘I’ loves
fashion.
> All the guys wore the typical black suit but I copied my outfit by
watching
> what Brad Pitt and George Clooney wear in Oceans 11, and I looked a
whole
> level of coolness above the rest.
>
> I generally busted on ‘I’ the whole time, and made her laugh and the
people
> on our table laugh. One of my best moments was when she got up to go
to the
> ladies and was a little tipsy, and in a dead serious tone I said
“‘I’, if
> you fall over I will never speak to you again.” The whole table
laughed, and
> she said “Oh there’s a lot riding on this then!”
>
> I made up a game at one point where I leaned over and said “Who’s
hotter, M
> or K?” – She was totally into this, and we did it by comparing
everyone in
> the room. Then when it was time to dance, she said “I can’t do partner
> dancing!” I tried to encourage her, but she wouldn’t budge, so I
grabbed M
> and we danced in a very seductive way that raised eyebrows from all
sides,
> and then I would swap with K and dance with her.
>
> I did not dance with ‘I’ for the rest of the day, only with M & K. ‘I’
> basically got blown off the dance floor and went to sit on her own
with her
> back to me. M said “that’s a good sign, she is ignoring you.”
>
> So after a while I sat down with her and she said she was not enjoying
> herself. I said “what happened?” and she said “I think I fell out of
love
> with someone.” She would not tell me who, so I acted like it was a
game of
> guessing who it was, and picking out gross guys.
>
> We chatted more about relationships. Then I danced again with M & K.
So it
> went for the whole day – I was the f__king man, with hot lesbians on
my arm,
> and she danced alone or else sulked or hung out with the girls.
>
> Then when it was time to leave, she went to leave without saying bye
to me
> so I sauntered outside and said “Leaving?”
>
> I gave her a hug but did not let go, and we chatted a little (still
holding
> on). Then I did the old trick of looking from her eyes to her lips
and she
> said “I can’t kiss you – I feel confused!”
>
> So I said “Well put your arms around my neck and don’t let go.” She did.
> Then I was kissing her on her neck and sucking her earlobes. She
looked at
> me again and said again “I can’t kiss you, I’m too confused.”
>
> I smiled and said “That’s such bullshit” and kissed her more on her
neck.
> Then her hot friend turned up and (I could have kissed her for this) she
> gave me a big hug and said “You’re GORGEOUS!” right in front of ‘I’.
>
> And off they went. ‘I’ looked back at me with a puzzled look on her
face and
> then walked away.
>
> —- END OF REPORT.
>
> SO………. what the hell? I’m lost! As far as I can tell I did
everything
> right and made no mistakes. But I’m not sure what she meant by “I
can’t kiss
> you, I’m confused.”
>
> Is that a test? Punishment for my outrageous flirting with M & K?
The switch
> isn’t quite flipped back from the old wuss days?
>
> And I have no idea what to do next. I’m thinking I should now do a ‘take
> away’ for a whole week and let that all sink into her.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> S
>
Simon-
I think you did well here. She’ll have to figure out what she
wants and back analyze her emotions. I think she is honestly confused
aka you flipped switches that were not flipped before. Your
persistence appeared to pay off. It also sounds like her friends are
on your side which is also good. Just don’t obsess over her; keep on
going out and meeting girls doing sets etc. I’ve made this mistake
many times and learned the way to get my mind off a girl is to find
others.

-RJ

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Message: 10
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:12:07 +1100
From: “Hart, Simon”
Subject: RE: Re: I’m stuck in my seduction, advice plea se!

>> I think you did well here. She’ll have to figure out what she
wants and back analyze her emotions. I think she is honestly confused
aka you flipped switches that were not flipped before. Your
persistence appeared to pay off. It also sounds like her friends are
on your side which is also good. Just don’t obsess over her; keep on
going out and meeting girls doing sets etc. I’ve made this mistake
many times and learned the way to get my mind off a girl is to find
others.

Cheers this all sounds like sound advice. Particularly to not obsess. I
think the trap with long seductions is that you end up having invested a lot
into them, so a feeling begins to build that is similar to One-itis but
dissimilar. Kind of like the frustration of trying to solve a puzzle that
you’ve been mulling over for ages and ages. It does not so much have the
pain of disempowerment, but it does have the pain of being unable to
overcome obstacles. And we all know that obstacles by their very nature are
ours to overcome.

S

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Message: 11
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 05:41:33 -0000
From: “B Wu”
Subject: confusing

We were watching a movie at her house, i was massaging her legs,
kissed her neck and ear. but she wouldn’t kiss me.

she’s a pretty good friend, so i asked why, she said she didn’t know.
i felt like the attraction was there.

i seem to do well on teh date and stuff but sometimes i can’t get it
to go past there. in the past, it was either not go forward or
SKYROCKET forward like.. you know what i mean. so i’m not sure what it
is. i have a feeling i might be too touchy and the girl’s not
comfortable yet. but i need to transition better. any suggestions?

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Message: 12
Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2006 11:01:08 -0800 (PST)
From: arthur deane
Subject: Re: confusing + 1

I got a story for you back when I didnt know any
IOI’s. There is this girl at work whom Ill call SARA..
Ok Sara and I use to talk a lot and joke around a
lot. We were good friends. which is all I wanted.
Anyway , one night, I asked if I could come over her
house to watcha movie. Incidentlly SARA is a 8 in the
face with a ten body..OK now Im going over there with
some beer and all and we were just relaxing and
talking . so the movie starts and I move over to her
and hold her. Now folks remember I was a afc with no
knowledge back then ok… Anyway we played around a
little and I looked at her feet she grew self
consicious when I teased her about them. so we were
drinking a littel and I got a little closer to her but
I didnt want any action of that sort for her.
Well we watched the movie and all, and well to me, it
seemed like a friendly atmosphere she said she ha to
go to bed so I said ok and left.
I wasnt mad or anything I left. Well let me tell you
Monday morning she was pissed at me and never wanted
to say a word for awhile. Even though she said I was
always welcomed to her house, she never had me over
again. Most folks I tell this story to say I should
have tried to get action that night. Well now at work
she never talks to me. So the moral of this confusing
story folks is if the change presents itself, take it
. More damage can be caused to a relationship by not
doing something than doing something ..

What are you guys thoughts on this story. also tell me
what I did wrong

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