Yahoo Groups 3/29/2006 “Alpha Behavior”
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 00:02:12 -0800
From: “Brandon J. Van Every”
Subject: Re: Important post from my blog.
Hart, Simon wrote:
> Brandon Van Every wrote:
> >>I’m rather aggressive. I used to debate people on the internet and in
> person all the time.
> So do I, but I do not see this as the same thing again. If you were in
> with your power, you probably wouldn’t want to waste your time on anything
> like that. You wouldn’t be trying to prove your manhood in these micro
> because you would be NATURAL. You would actually be RELAXED. People would
> debate you and you couldn’t be f__ked to argue with them – why? Because
> their opinions do not threaten you on any level (i.e they do not wound
It is a mistake to assume that people debate because they’re
threatened. Rather, they may debate because they feel a sense of
mastery in that domain, and they enjoy stomping other people into the
ground who aren’t as good at it as they are. No different than playing
basketball and running circles around your opponent. People enjoy the
“flow state” of doing well. Now, if the opponent is too easy, it may
not be enjoyable. I’m reading a book called “Satisfaction” by Gregory
Berns, and it says the brain seeks novelty + needs a certain level of
challenge it can overcome. This is the source of satisfaction, actively
pursuing a goal, rather than passively receiving pleasure rewards. This
is a scientifically based book, with MRI scans and lab tests and so
forth, it’s not motivational speaking. Anyways, I usually avoid “the
boring arguments” nowadays, because I’ve heard them already a zillion
times in the past.
> >> Funny thing is I also did yoga for awhile, and I’ve never been so close
> yet so far away!
> Yeah it did not help me at all. I did it hardcore for years and all it did
> was make me sensitive and introverted.
Actually, a female massage therapist friend of mine had a comment about
the yoga chicks. She said, they’re a rather introverted lot.
Internally focused. She wasn’t surprised that I had a difficult time
with them. She was bizzare, a massage therapist who refused to do
yoga! That’s unheard of. Her opinion was, there were plenty of other
ways to work the body and she just wasn’t into it. So forget it, nyaah!
> When I talk about unleashing my aggression level by doing manly stuff, I’m
> just doing it because it puts me in touch with something. It is kind of a
> crutch. I can do it without being macho. I can do it and feel the
> essence of
> what it is to be a man, you know…?
> I think this is what we have to do.
I’m sure there are several roads to get there. I think I understand the
feeling you are describing, and have felt it before. Most recent time
was in January, when I was out on a date. For a couple of weeks I was
dating. I felt validated that I was in this dating situation, and that
I was sexually powerful, and at ease with it.
Unfortunately, the chick in question had *deep* issues about her own
sexuality and clammed up. She lost her virginity at 28. She looks
androgynous, keeps her hair close-cropped, and dresses in an
unflattering manner. She emits no phermones at all. She has
contemplated a sex change operation. She puts her head on the boobies
of her female friends when she meets them. She may be a lesbian who
hasn’t figured it out yet. She’s got horrible phobias about sex being
“dirty, invasive, and germ ridden.” She would avoid kissing me. She
slept in my bed New Year’s Eve… and nothing happened. She wasn’t
unattracted to me… women who are unattracted to me go home in their
own cars and sleep in their own beds. In short she was not “sexually
available,” in the same sense that other people aren’t “emotionally
available.” Really blocked. I told her so. I saw it as no skin off my
back; I clearly wasn’t the one with the problem.
So why was I dating her? (1) From a “common interests” standpoint, she
was really really interesting. She could fix cars and build things for
Burning Man. We made costumes for New Years and won a contest. (2)
“Marginal women” is a pattern that’s been going on for the past few
years. Or really, all the time I’ve been in Seattle. Actually, even in
Chapel Hill, NC to some degree. I haven’t figured out how to get better
ones, so I’ve ended up with these ones that are sexually broken.
There was this polyamorous bi gal. That didn’t work because she was
*emotionally* polyamorous. You get all this indirect emotional bullshit
from the other people she’s seeing that you don’t even know. Later for
that! There was this agoraphobic gal who wanted to stay cooped up in
her house playing computer games all weekend. She also had body issues
and wouldn’t let me see her naked. She’d crawl into bed in the dark.
She may also have been an alcoholic. My one ex-girlfriend in Seattle
many years ago was bi. She only liked effeminate men and I’m not. The
sex was terrible. I think sex is about getting off; she thought it was
about just lying there going on some weird open ended spiritual
journey. I suspect she was raped by a male family member in her youth.
She never said anything about it, but it would explain everything. At
least she was hot though. Could have been different if she had been a
“real woman,” but she wasn’t / isn’t.
On the positive side, I don’t put up with these broken women for longer
than 3 weeks. That’s usually how long it takes me to figure out they’re
completely crazy, and either dump them or be dumped. Not abusing myself
with a loser makes me more alpha; I’m not interested in dysfunction.
But, the fact that I end up with these chicks in the 1st place, the way
I’m scraping the bottom of the barrel, makes me feel rather beta.
I feel beta right now due to lack of dating. My house of cards
collapsed right after I stopped with that woman in January. That
feeling of male empowerment in the loins just went away. It was back to
“shit, what next?”
The problem wasn’t “what about other women.” The problem was I had no
money. I don’t mean a little money, I mean *NO* money. No money no
honey. What the hell was I going to do? I subsisted until signature
gathering season started. The 1st month of signature gathering, I got
killed. I made substantially less than minimum wage most of the time,
until I learned how to work the new territories. Now I’m doing ok and
have pretty much recovered financially. That is, I don’t have to think
about buying a beer anymore.
So, uh, word to the wise. Tend to basic material needs. 🙂 Easier
said than done when you have an “artistic temperament,” and are prone to
do idealistic things like work on your completely unprofitable computer
Brandon Van Every
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 00:26:38 -0800
From: “Brandon J. Van Every”
Subject: Re: Re: survey on the street
> — In firstname.lastname@example.org, “Brandon J. Van Every”
> > I have thought of designing a “racy survey.” Say 10 YES / NO
> > questions. The last question would be “do you want to go out with the
> > guy giving this survey?” Space for a name and phone number.
> …if you work a large number of
> women, you’ll get at least some who are ready to go by default. Based
> on their responses, I’d then offer them a chance to meet me for drinks.
> It’s worth testing. Let the field be the judge.
The only downside is that this feels like my job. 🙂 I imagine at
some point I’ll get over that, make up the survey, and just go do it, on
my day off. But I sure as heck am not going to come home from 8..10
hours of signature gathering and go do a survey.
The thing that is least likeable about signature gathering, is not
knowing what kind of returns you’re going to get until you actually try
the pitch / signs / location out. On the other hand, I know what it
takes to debug a campaign. It can work; the downside is it could work
immediately, or not for a month until I figure out what’s required. I
know what works and doesn’t work for ballot initiatives, but I’ve never
done mass sex surveys to get a date before. I expect a learning curve.
The bar crawling way is a lot of work too though. So is online dating,
even though I’m pretty good at getting 1st dates from that medium. So
many webpages to sift through to do that. Tonight I didn’t go out, I
worked on computer stuff. That’s not as evasive as it sounds. I have 2
major goals for my free time right now: chicks and making some progress
on my computer stuff. Meeting goals raises self-esteem. Right now, I’m
more inclined to work through the various PUA materials available, and
also my emotional state regarding women.
I know that right now, I have a bad attitude about women. I rather much
resent the idea of having to entertain them. *I* want to be entertained
when I go out and do stuff on my free time. Not do some pile of work to
engineer a flim-flam show so I can get laid. So what I probably need to
do is, figure out something about PUA that fits with my already
established personal style. I have various capabilibies, I’m just not
in touch with how to use them.
Brandon Van Every
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 08:12:53 -0800
From: “Brandon J. Van Every”
Subject: Re: BETA GUY and his “Percieved Threats”
Chunwah Ho wrote:
> But suppose the AFC is in constant contact with hot
> women 24/7. How long would you think he would adapt
> his behavior to the point of: #1) Being comfortable
> and relaxed around them #2) Start to develop traits
> that are attractive to hot women.
Dunno. People can have deep issues or ingrained personality traits
owing to childhood. Makes a big difference whether the hot women are
providing any kind of positive feedback, or whether the AFC is caught in
a vicious cycle where they reinforce negative self-image.
Wouldn’t mind the problem of being surrounded 24/7 by hot women though!
Sure as heck isn’t my life. Some industries provide it, others don’t.
I guess that’s what clubs are for. Maybe that should be my 1st
homework: identify the venues in Seattle that have the highest number of
hot women. Regardless of what I do about it. Sorta like finding all
the grocery stores and WalMarts that yield the most signatures.
Brandon Van Every
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 00:53:09 -0000
Subject: Re: Body Language
I dig what your saying. I’m totally newbie PUA right now. This whole
conversation is also reminding me of when I thought the IOI’s were
there but I must have exaggerated them because I had a high
attraction level for this girl and the girl was a beautiful girl that
worked on the other side of my building. One day last spring she
sidled right up to me and sat down during a meeting. She was
receptive to my conversation and smiled a lot showing her teeth
(supposed IOI) I though for sure she liked me even though I’m a bit
older. Anyway,eventually, I got the boyfriend bomb without even
alluding to ask her out. I thought she was giving obvious IOI’s.
And I’m kicking myself because one of our interns was not shy about
letting me know she was intersted, she was cute but tall (I’m 5’4″)
and a little bit overweight but I probably had a shot because she
said she wanted to see my new condo. I was wrapped up in this other
girl. Wow I missed out! The other girl was probably wild in bed and
I’m willing to guess that this hotter one would just lie there.
A while later I went against the advice of some people on this site
and actually asked her out-she paused and said that she has a
boyfriend-in many of the conversations I’ve had with her she had not
brought him up and I thought he was gone. Oddly, we recently had a
staff meeting where I distinctly overheard her say to another
colleague,”It’s not that I don’t like him but…….and I couldn’t
catch the rest. I think people at work are asking her why she’s not
interested? Lately, she has been avoiding any presence of me. I was
avoiding her presence after the rejection because it was to painful
to acknowledge I was never going to get any of that. I wanted to
forget that beautiful face. Anyway I forgot about it and she was
always friendly afterwards but now it seems as though she’ll avoid me
at all costs-I wonder if people are bugging her about the situation.
We all have tough stress laden jobs and I wouldn’t want to make her
feel uncomfortable at all. I was simply nutz about her. But, I never
harrassed her about anything. I never brought up the subject again.
— In email@example.com, michaelchina@… wrote:
> I agree, the Whole IOI thing is sometimes vastly overrated. I can
usually tell when there is serious interest there: major eye contact,
grooming behavior, out right smile, wink, etc….those, of course are
easy. Where newbie PUAs miss out is when they don’t get any of this,
and, based on the lack of IOIs, decide not to approach. Big mistake.
> When i was a newbie PUA, I only went for women who pretty much beat
me over the head with “approach me, apporach me!” IOIs. And while
that was an approach that generally got me numbers and eventually
dates, sex, etc, what it did not get me is what i most
wanted:control. By seeking out only women with body language IOIs, i
limited my “conquest” to those who expressed interest in me; thus
ceeding control, in true AFC fashion, to a woman.
> To combat this, i began to consciously talk to any woman i found
attractive, whether or not she gave me IOIs. And what i found was
that many women who are interested dont necessarily show the blatant
ioi signs or body language tip offs that we might wait for or want to
see or they dont show them when we, as men, expect to see them. Many
of the women who i just approached, IOI be damned, later told me they
noticed me BEFORE i approached them (and before i noticed them in
some instances), or that they had hoped i would say something to
them. So why no IOIs that i could discern? One thing i discovered is
that women may “check you out” or eye you long before you check them
out or even notice them. Walking down the street, for instance, many
woman will look at you and make decisions about you (based on your
looks and the way you walk) long before you are close enough to make
regular eye contact. Women in street scenarios in particular, may not
feel comfortable making real eye contact up close, when most men
expect it, bu tmay have already checked you out and wouldn’t mind a
> I suppose the bottom line is, if you see something you like,
approach w/o regard to initial body language (obviously if she is
sending signals, and she is to your liking, go for it). The game gets
interesting when you can lay down enough “science” on her in that
initial conversation to MAKE her attracted to you….
> > —– Original Message —–
> > From: “David Caswell”
> > To: firstname.lastname@example.org
> > Subject: [seduction_dating] Re: Body Language
> > Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2006 22:48:48 -0000
> > — In email@example.com, “BrodToddman”
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > — In firstname.lastname@example.org, dee fex
> > > >
> > > > Great Post! I occasionally try to remember to try to pay
> > > attention to body language, but David I like your man’s man
> > > attitude better.
> > Here’s the problem with the whole IOI (Indicator of Interest)
> > For this to really work you need to calibrate a chick. How does
> > act when she’s interested? How does she act when she’s not
> > I’ve never been able to bring in a bum and Brad Pitt and compare a
> > chick’s reaction to both guys.
> > I’ve seen lists with dozens of things that could be Indications of
> > Interest. But you will never know for sure whether she’s
> > doing what you want to do, unless you try to do want you want to
> > She either will, or won’t. This keeps things very simple.
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 01:00:08 -0000
Subject: Body Language George?
While I believe there is nothing like real time calibration, I find
> IOIs and IODs to be extremely important for many men. Those men don’t
> really want to spend months and months learning NLP and hypnosis; they
> want to get laid. Period. And that’s why they need those IOIs and IODs
> to know what’s going on. For that purpose, they’re great.
Are you refering to those IOI’s that are showing rock solid interest or
all IOI’s including the more subtle ones too. I’ve been let down by
these on several occasions. I do find myself reading a NLP book
occasionally. Though the book deals more with the business aspect of
NLP,isn’t this all about selling yourself anyway?
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 10:54:52 -0000
Subject: “Hi, I’m trying to conquer my fear of women. Mind if we talk a minute?”
I’ve tried the above lately (plus some variations), with great results.
1. Oh, really? Why are you afraid? We don’t bite…. Talk to me.
2. That’s the best line I’ve heard in years. Come sit, down….
3. No shit? You gotta be kidding! That must be a miserable feeling.
What’re you drinking?
And the conversations open up.
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 02:06:54 -0000
Subject: Re: Body Language George?
— In email@example.com, “BrodToddman”
> While I believe there is nothing like real time calibration, I find
> > IOIs and IODs to be extremely important for many men. Those men don’t
> > really want to spend months and months learning NLP and hypnosis; they
> > want to get laid. Period. And that’s why they need those IOIs and IODs
> > to know what’s going on. For that purpose, they’re great.
> Are you refering to those IOI’s that are showing rock solid interest or
> all IOI’s including the more subtle ones too.
I am saying it pays to pay attention to clusters. One or two signs are
not enough. Look for more. Reward and reinforce her interest.
I’ve been let down by
> these on several occasions.
That may be true, but you also need to look at your beavior and see if
you did anything to make her lose interest in you. I’ve been there
myself, so I know that is possible.
I do find myself reading a NLP book
> occasionally. Though the book deals more with the business aspect of
> NLP,isn’t this all about selling yourself anyway?
Yeah, it is. And if you’ve ever sold anything, you know how important
it is to know when your buyer is interested.
Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 17:51:26 -0800
From: “Brandon J. Van Every”
Subject: Re: Re: Body Language
> And I’m kicking myself because one of our interns was not shy about
> letting me know she was intersted, she was cute but tall (I’m 5’4″)
> and a little bit overweight but I probably had a shot because she
> said she wanted to see my new condo. I was wrapped up in this other
> girl. Wow I missed out! The other girl was probably wild in bed and
> I’m willing to guess that this hotter one would just lie there.
Don’t kick yourself about going after the women you actually want. In
the past, I have been confronted with 2 women who were friends. One
cuter than the other, one easier than the other. I’ve gone after the
easier one and come to regret it. Such as, realizing much later that I
could indeed have gone after the cuter one, that she actually was
interested, and I could have had her if I had just showed either more
spine or more awareness. So since then, I have always gone after the
one I actually wanted, even if that left me empty handed. I don’t find
myself regretting that. I’ve had the experience of getting in the sack
with someone and then asking myself, “Why am I here?” All pussy is
*not* created equal. Go after what you want, not what you think you can
Sometimes I’ve been forced to choose. Like, I was in a class, I was
interested in 1 gal, but this other gal was interested in me. No way I
could go after my target and have the second-string one not notice. So
I went for the one I wanted. This blew it with the one that was
interested in me. I didn’t get the one I wanted, but I don’t regret
what I did.
If you can avoid choosing and keep them separate, that’s better. But
sometimes you have to choose.
Brandon Van Every
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 02:32:53 -0000
Subject: Reporter Drill Day 4..
Well guys went sarging tonight. Only made two approaches. No sooner
then when I get to the mall I have a contact give me fits so I cant
see a damn thing so I think I missed a few opportunities.
Regardless, I went 1 for 2. I approached one girl and she was easy to
talk to and friendly kind of young though and not a great deal of insight.
The second girl was working at the sunglasses kiosk a young black
girl. She said she was heading to the restroom to checkback. It was
a blowoff and I should have called her on it but I didnt.
The one thing I notice I am finding it easier to approach women
however, I am still struggling with the three second rule. I kind of
have coach myself up to go approach. I did miss some opportunities
and sometimes I didnt approach because I was what others around may
think. All areas I need to work on. Still I do see progress.
I would like to do the drill and start practicing openers also soon.
My numbers now are 6 out of 11.
Here is the results.
1) Name three characteristics you look for in a man
2) If you were to see a man that interests you, what would capture
3) On a first date would you prefer a dinner at a nice restaurant or a
casual date over drinks out (if you are drinking age)?
4) If you were to notice a guy that attracted you, would you be more
likely to approach him or wait for him to approach you?
5) What is the most unusual date you have been on?
6) What is the best date?
7) What is the worst
Girl # 11, 18-19, White, Amber
1) Sense of Humor, Compatibility, and Taller then me
2) Depends on the guy
3) Dinner because you get a chance to talk while drinks it is in a
loud setting so you don’t get as good a chance to talk its more intimate
4) I wouldn’t approach him
5) Nothing really
6) I don’t like to go out on formal dates. Just go catch a movie,
something more casual
7) Nothing really, I don’t really go out on many dates. I just hang out.
Girl # 12, black 23-25 turndown
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2006 04:38:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Chunwah Ho
Subject: Re: BETA GUY and his “Percieved Threats”
— “Brandon J. Van Every”
> Chunwah Ho wrote:
> > But suppose the AFC is in constant contact with
> > women 24/7. How long would you think he would
> > his behavior to the point of: #1) Being
> > and relaxed around them #2) Start to develop
> > that are attractive to hot women.
> Dunno. People can have deep issues or ingrained
> personality traits
> owing to childhood. Makes a big difference whether
> the hot women are
> providing any kind of positive feedback, or whether
> the AFC is caught in
> a vicious cycle where they reinforce negative
> Wouldn’t mind the problem of being surrounded 24/7
> by hot women though!
> Sure as heck isn’t my life. Some industries provide
> it, others don’t.
> I guess that’s what clubs are for. Maybe that
> should be my 1st
> homework: identify the venues in Seattle that have
> the highest number of
> hot women. Regardless of what I do about it. Sorta
> like finding all
> the grocery stores and WalMarts that yield the most
> Brandon Van Every
Hmmm…come to think of it, being surrounded by
beautiful women 24/7 does have its side effects. You
will begin to lose your masculinity and become one of
them. It’s good to hang out with the boys sometime 🙂
Do girls leave you confused as to whether or not they like you?
Let's face it. Girl's don't make it easy for you. She will often send mixed signals leaving you unable to tell if she is being friendly or flirty. If you read her signals wrong you risk rejection and embarrassment. Or worse, you blow it with a girl who wanted to kiss you.
Here is a simple and innocent move that will instantly tell you if you're in the friend zone, or if she's waiting for you to kiss her.
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