Approaching Directly or Indirectly

I figured in light of a podcast Mike Stoute and I just finished this was a great time to post this article by Derek Vitalio. We touch on this subject in our podcast on approaching, and I must say that Derek has influenced a lot of what I do in the bar/club scene.

How to Approach Women Directly and Indirectly by Derek Vitalio

A lot of guys ask me whether they should use a direct or indirect approach when first approaching women.

Direct is where you make your sexual interest known to the girl upfront, right away. For example, in a direct approach you might walk up to a woman and look right into her eyes and tell her how sexy she is.

Indirect is where you talk or interact with the girl, but keep your sexual interest disguised, at least initially. In an indirect approach, you might ask a woman her opinion on something to open her.

Im going to give you the answer to what’s better and when. But the answer is not as cut-and-dry as to say direct OR indirect. Let me explain.

Lets say youre an average or below-average looking guy and you walk alone into a club. Across the room, you see this gorgeous woman who could sleep with any guy she wanted. In fact, all the other guys look at her hoping shell make eye contact with them. Shes a Perfect 10.

What if you made a DIRECT approach on this Perfect 10?

What if, as an average looking guy, and with no social proof from other girls, you walked up to her. You tell her what a nice energy she has. Or you take her hands and without saying a word start massaging them. Or you tell her a clich pick-up line like, So, is it hot in here or is it just you? in a playful way.

Even if your delivery is smooth, you have to remember something very important:

When you walk into a club, your social status is a 6.

HER social status is a 10.

A 10 will not sleep with a 6.

Sorry, I hate to say that, but it’s true.

When you directly approach a Perfect 10 and immediately begin displaying interest in her, you have to keep in mind that she knows nothing about you.

You might as well be any other random guy in the club, who all want to sleep with her – and theres not enough of her to go around. She has unlimited choice. Why would she want to sleep with you over anyone else?

In such a case, you might get a smile and a thank you for a compliment, but the direct approach alone does little to increase your social value to her.

Of course a direct approach CAN work… under different circumstances.

Lets say that youre incredibly good looking and well-dressed “ better looking and well-dressed than 99% of the other guys in the club. Youre good looking enough that other women look at you to admire your chiseled features and rock-hard body.

When you directly approach a woman, right away she can visually SEE how great-looking you are. Shes NOTICED that other women look at you, giving you implicit social proof from the other women. Add to that you come in with very strong body language like strong eye contact, a solid smile, relaxed shoulders, and a sexy swagger.

In this case, youre social status is more like a 9 than a 6.

Direct approaches on super-beautiful women may work for you then, because even before youve opened your mouth shes already decided you have as much value as she does. The two of you have equal value.

In such a circumstance, you could tell the beautiful woman ANYTHING using ANY kind of approach and youll still be successful.

When else will direct approaches work?

Lets say youre an average-looking guy and youre social value is an average 6 when you walk into the club. Youre normal in other words. You spot a girl who is not outright ugly, but not a head turner either – maybe a 6 or a 7 out of 10.

You walk up to her and do a direct approach. Shes surprised that any guy would be so direct with her or pay her that kind of attention.

In this case, a direct approach can work because youre approaching a girl with the same social status as you. A 6 or a 7 will sleep with a 6 in other words.

You might even land an 8 once in a while with direct approaches if youre nonverbal skills are good and if you play the numbers.

And guess what. Theres nothing wrong with direct approaches. If you like 6s, 7s, and occassional 8s that is. Or if you like big women for instance that most men normally pass over. You can get laid a lot this way.

But what if youre one of the millions of guys with average looks but wants to get with really HOT women, the 9s and the Perfect 10s?

Direct approaches wont work on 9s and 10s.

9s and 10s have too much social value to respond to an average guy who has otherwise demonstrated little or no value to them.

When you a compliment or do a direct opener on a 10, she knows she already has won you. They may smile and say thank you to a compliment, but otherwise theyll attempt to ignore you or blow you out of the conversation. Game over.

Even if the Perfect 10 is intrigued with your direct style, it only takes the social pressure of a disapproving look from one of her girl friends to make her reject you.

For 9s and 10s you cant openly reveal your sexual interest in them until youve increased your own value in their and their friends eyes “ until youve become a 9 or a 10 yourself.

Thats why indirect openers, like casually asking their opinion about something, work.

By initiating the conversation in a casual way by asking the womans opinion, her defenses wont go up.

You separate yourself from all the other guys who only talk to her for sex and start with how they want her.

Youve bought yourself some time to start demonstrating value in front of her without having to deal with being ignored, back turned, or being blown out of the conversation by her or her friends.

You should look at the opinion opener as a curiosity hook simply to get the Perfect 10 and her friends engaged in conversation with you.

You’ll find yourself holding the group’s attention – at least for a moment.

That moment is really all you need. As long as you continue building your social value with her and her group of friends through interesting and funny stories, playful routines, cocky jib-jab, conversational hooks, touch, strong nonverbal cues, and so on, youll generally continue to hold the group.

Remember, your social value rests in how she sees you interacting with other beautiful women, even more so than what you do with her.

That’s why it’s so important to engage her AND her friends.

Within some minutes your value will increase from a 6, to a 7, and to an 8, climbing higher and higher as long as you come across as a cool guy who can engage them.

It also takes the pressure off of your fragile ego because youre not laying your body and soul out there in front of girls for them to reject or accept.

After all, all you’re doing is getting their opinion!

THEN, and only AFTER you’ve built value up for yourself with her and her friends and only AFTER shes given you green light signals (heavy eye contact, touches, facing toward you, laughing with you, complimenting you) do you become “direct” with her.

You only show direct interest in her AFTER shes shown direct interest in you.

Following that formula YOU CAN NEVER BE REJECTED.

Imagine this. You casually open a group of beautiful women with an interesting opinion opener that teases their curiosity and hooks them in.

You build value to all the girls in the group by leading and controlling the girls through your stories, body language, games, and so on.

The hot girl of the group starts to give you green lights of attraction while you generally ignore her.

But now that you have social value, now that you’re a 9 or a 10 like she is, when you express direct interest in her, shes responsive and excited to your advances.

AND her friends wont try to stop you or give her silent messages of disapproval with their eyes because they like you just as much as she does.

You are now a 9 or 10 engaging a 9 or a 10.

And 9s and 10s sleep with other 9s and 10s.

The “Brad Pitt Method”

Remember that direct openers will only work with girls who have the same social value as you do.

If Brad Pitt walks into the room, ALL the girls will stare at him because of his fame and looks and hell automatically have maximum social proof. He will automatically have the social status of a 10.

He could just walk up to the most beautiful woman in the room, who would normally shoot down any other guy, and start making out with her in front of everyone without having to say a word to her – the most direct kind of approach there is!

Does that mean you should listen to Brad Pitt if he gave you advice to always be super-direct with women? Obviously not.

Because what will work for him will not work for you.

However, you too can initiate direct make-outs and direct openers on Perfect 10s if you build enough social value in front of them.

Lets say that through indirect or opinion openers, you talk to three or four groups of attractive 8s and 9s in the club, making them laugh and touch you. All the while, you do it in front of the Perfect 10.

Pretty soon youll look like the celebrity Mac-Daddy with all of these girls around you.

At a certain point, once you’ve raised your social value to that of a 10 through social proof with other girls, youll be able to lay a “Brad Pitt direct opener” on the Perfect 10 “ just walk up to her and kiss her or directly tell her what you think of her.

Shell respond extremely positively and want to be with you. After all, as a 10, you’re the prize of the club.

So direct or indirect is not an either or choice.

If youre lower in social value than the girl you want, use indirect openers as a way to get in and to build your social value up to her level.

Once your social-sexual value is the same as hers, in HER eyes, then go you can go direct.

Now notice how your success with extremely beautiful women largely depends on manipulating and harnessing the power of group psychology and how women look for approval from one another in selecting mates.

Of course, I can tell you all of this but youre might be thinking to yourself – thanks Derek, but that sounds easier said than done!

Actually, it IS quite easy. Openers and groups might feel new and different to you, maybe even a little scary. But like everything else, with a little practice you get better and more comfortable with it.

The Seduction Science System
expands further on the dynamics of how to get girls in clubs and how to attract the truly beautiful women you really want – not just the average ones. Seduction Science also helps you to get into the right state of mind to BE that guy who builds his social value to attract truly beautiful women.

And for more about opinion openers and direct approach techniques, I highly recommend you take a look at the Opening Magic course too.

Dont ask yourself the question if youre ready to start having beautiful women in your life. You ARE ready. Make the commitment right now and dont look back for one moment.

Live the life today. I’ll see you on the Lounge.

Your Friend,

Derek Vitalio


Simple Trick Tells You if a Girl Wants You to Kiss Her

Do girls leave you confused as to whether or not they like you?

Let's face it. Girl's don't make it easy for you. She will often send mixed signals leaving you unable to tell if she is being friendly or flirty. If you read her signals wrong you risk rejection and embarrassment. Or worse, you blow it with a girl who wanted to kiss you.

Here is a simple and innocent move that will instantly tell you if you're in the friend zone, or if she's waiting for you to kiss her.

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About Bobby Rio I'm Bobby Rio, one of the founders of TSB. I tend to write about what is on my mind so you'll find a mix of self development, social dynamics and dating articles/experiences.  For a collection of some of my favorite articles check them out.

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