Cliff’s List 10/01/2006

Here is another installment from the always interesting and entertaining Cliff’s List. Cliff’s
List is considered to be the pulse of the PUA community.

Dan Tolumbro (

Why You Should Talk to Fat and Ugly Girls

One thing I’ve been noticing from going out lately is that the hottest girls I end up making out with or number closing usually aren’t in the set when I open..

What happens is I go up to some girls who are maybe 5’s to 6’s, and chat with them, get them giggling, etc. From there, a hot girl, maybe an 8-9 walks up and introduces herself to me. Believe it or not, a lot of hot girls roll with less attractive girls. From there on you already have the group’s comfort and appreciation so it is easy to isolate the hot girl from there.

Just two weeks I had rolled up to a couple less than attractive girls and said “You seem fun, I just had to say hi.” We were chatting back and forth, when a hot 8.9 came up. I started doing some dance spins with her around, and within a minute said “Your legs are tired, my legs are tired; Let’s go sit at that booth.” I took her by the hand and led her to a booth away from the others and we started cuddling. Within minutes, we were making out and I got her number. She’s still calling me back and we’re setting up a meet soon.

Now could this have worked had I waited until the 8.9 was already in the set? Of course. But I’ve found it to be far easier to attract a girl if you hit the set before she arrives. You’ve already won over her friends at this point. Even if you haven’t won over her friends it can still work well if you’re already in the set. Some months back, I went up to two girls who weren’t that interested, and a third girl came up who was interested. She stayed behind when her friends left and we ended up making out at the bar.

On a more general note, you should be playfully bantering with all types of women, and guys as well. Throughout your day, you should be bringing joyful interactions to as many people as possible. The fat ghetto girl serving you at Burger King? Make her smile. You don’t have to outright flirt of course, but just a little playful misinterpretation can help the day.

Also by talking to as many people as possible you can sort of “neg” the girls you finally legitimately approach. If you only go up to hot girls in a bar, the girls around you notice that you’re gaming. However if you’re talking to one legged girls and random guys all around the bar, when you’re finally going up to the hot girls, they assume you’re just being social and that it’s not a full blown approach.



Something you may be interested in including in one of your future emails. It might help for the more logical folk out there an understanding of the proper training to do to become successful.


How to get your subconscious to work for you.

It’s not easy. In fact it’s hard, very hard. But once your sub-conscious is programmed with your goals in mind, it will work towards your objectives automatically. Without thinking, you will fulfill your goals.

When you walk, you do not consciously think about the process of adjusting muscle tension relative to balance and direction. Something other than your consciousness is handling the task. Your subconscious is automatically taking care of all the different processes needed to walk without thinking.

You don’t even have to consider it in the slightest. Leaving you to walk down tree lined streets listening to your mp3 player.

The sub-conscious acts like a machine, an infinitesimally complex machine that sits in our brain, feeding off our consciousness. All it knows is what we feed it. We feed it rubbish and rubbish it will return. We feed it the good stuff and good stuff we get back.

Like a creature we keep locked in the cupboard, we slide cold cuts under the crack in the door to keep it sustained. And in return it runs the functions we do not have time for.

The subconscious controls our walking, our driving the car. Even the way we perceive colours. Our emotions take their lead from the subconscious. It is a vital component to our existence, treating it well will reward us tenfold.

Without the subconscious we would be unable to function. Our consciousness can only perform one task at a time. You may think you can multi-task, watching the TV whilst surfing the web, but what you are actually doing is switching very quickly between the two. It means that your concentration is reduced. If you want to increase your concentration do not multi-task.

But our subconscious can run a number of tasks at once. Think of it as a computer that can run multiple programme scripts at once. The scripts are stored somewhere in the brain and when needed the sub-consciousness will run the script. When we decide to do something and constantly end up being distracted or unable to complete the task for no external reason, the subconscious is at work. It makes decisions for us that we are not consciously aware of, leading us to believe that the Universe is somehow against us. When it was our own sub-conscious all along. When we self sabotage ourselves like this, our sub-consciousness is only doing what it’s learned, but it can be unlearned.

The sub-consciousness decides the scripts to be run, it does not matter to the sub-consciousness if they have a positive effect or a negative effect.

If we programme our sub-consciousness to deliver negative thoughts, then we will get negative thoughts. Even though our conscious may demand positive thoughts and actions.

Re-programming the sub-conscious is hard work, but can be done and must be done if you are constantly self sabotaging yourself.

If your sub-conscious is not on your side you will never succeed in your goals. This is where most people go wrong when it comes to self development, they misjudge the ease at which change can occur, giving up when it gets too hard. Once your sub-conscious is on your side and working towards your goal, things will seem to fall in your lap.

Rewriting scripts embedded in you sub-conscious takes discipline and patience, but is not impossible.

Previously I outlined a rough outline of the workings of the sub-conscious and how it affects your daily actions. Here are six steps to getting your sub-conscious to work towards your goals.

Using the power of auto suggestion you can challenge pre-programmed scripts which do not support your goals. By repeating a statement to yourself that challenges an existing script you can reprogramme your sub-conscious to support you in your goals.

The power of auto suggestion is well documented and is used by success coaches and sports coaches around the world. Most people fail to change because they simply make their goal and forget that for years they have been letting their sub-conscious do the exact opposite.

Here are six steps to help you re-programme your sub-conscious.

1. Determine what exactly you want to achieve. This will enable you to focus in on the exact script in your sub-conscious which needs to be changed. Do not be vague, rather than saying you want to be a confident person for example, say you want to be more comfortable talking to strangers. The more precise you are, the more easily it will be to change.

2. Thought alone is not enough. Physical manifestation of your desire will reinforce the rewriting of your script. How much you are willing to do is up to you. You must decide how far you are prepared to go.

3. Fixing a date for the achievement of your goal will allow you to know how much you will need to do to succeed. Setting an unrealistic date may doom you to failure. However, make the date too far away and you may lose interest. Being honest about what you need to do to fix an accurate date. A date that both stretches you and keeps your interest is optimum.

4. Plan your actions to assist in rewriting your script. For example, to boost your public speaking skills, set a goal to approach a stranger each day and initiate conversation. Each day you do this will build your confidence and help erase whatever it was in your sub-conscious that was holding you back.

Repeating small, positive actions goes a long way in the rewriting of your sub-conscious. Once your sub-conscious is rewritten it will work towards these goals without you even having to think about it.

5. Write out your plan as a statement of fact. A document that attests to what you will do.

6. Read twice daily your statement, knowing what you have set out to achieve will surely happen. Doing this regularly will burn it deep into you mind, enabling you to change your sub-conscious scripts.

You cannot simply make a goal and expect to change over night. Small steps, tiny bites and you will succeed. Persistence and discipline are your weapons of choice.


Michael (


Sometimes guys honestly confess to the insane level of frustration they are feeling. And it takes GUTS to do this, to be

HONEST about wanting to IMPROVE a situation.

The challenge though, is sometimes even feeling frustration is not enough motivation for some guys to be READY for a change

in viewing reality.

Change is new, it can be frightening if your past experiences with change weren’t all that good. So a guy can go for years before being READY to accept a new perspective, before being READY to really digest a new perspective and give it a real chance.

Recently, I got an email from a guy who had a negative experience with a couple of women, one from on-line and one in real life:

An excerpt from what he wrote:

“…Perhaps there are other reasons, and there are plenty of women around to meet, but my point is, aren’t we men up against a level of arrogance that is at an all time high? Isn’t this maybe too much for us to take on? I think there was a time that the average young female might have been impressed to go out with a university educated person. Now, what impresses them? What will they compromise on? Anything can be a deal breaker…pets, saying something to their kid (no matter how ridiculous the kid is being), anything at all?”

Any of that sound familiar to you?

The thing is, I can already tell from the email the MAIN THING going wrong from his perspective is the entire PARADIGM he

has of attraction.

It’s the same paradigm I used to take: Viewing attraction with a CEREBRAL perspective.

Cerebral perspectives on attraction result in a guy coming across as BORING.

It’s as simple as THAT.

Guys think that by piling on the university degrees, the good “being able to compromise” behaviour, and possibly by having money, they are going to appeal to women.

Because all this stuff LOGICALLY sounds like “GOOD THINGS”.

These are the things you have been told your whole life that you should have, to get a woman to want to be with you, etc.

And yeah, there are a few folks who get a LITTLE “action” or “results” that way, i.e. a dude is a doctor or something, but

honestly THAT kind of result is more of a woman being LOGICAL, and saying “hmm, I SHOULD be with this guy”

which is very different from a woman feeling “I MUST BE WITH THIS GUY BECAUSE I WANT HIM BADLY”.

You see, the truth is you really don’t want a woman to be with you for LOGICAL reasons, crazy as that sounds. You want her to be INSANE about you, not logical at all. You want her to be EMOTIONAL about you. You don’t want her to be with you because after she looks at her mathematical charts, she comes to some kind of logical “conclusion” to be with you.

See, you already KNOW DEEP DOWN, that you don’t even CARE or WANT a woman to be with you for LOGICAL reasons, right? You want her to be MADLY, CRAZY WILD ABOUT YOU.

So why would you try to attract a woman with all this useless logical stuff?

You have to leave behind all that stuff, because it has NOTHING to do with ATTRACTION.

ATTRACTION lives in another DIMENSION. You have to BLAST OFF from the land of boring anti-attraction stuff, you have to blast off with raging engines that are burning an inferno of thrust to get you away from there.

ONLY then will you make it past the heavy gravity of the anti-attraction dimension, and break on through to the other dimension of sexy exciting intriguing passionate ATTRACTION.

You mention that we men are up against a really high level of ARROGANCE. This is both TRUE and NOT TRUE.

From a hottie woman’s point of view, she is not being arrogant, she is just going out of her MIND with BORING guys who KEEP ON WASTING HER TIME, AND MAKING HER FEEL WEIRD, AND TRYING TO TAKE FROM HER. And these guys get

upset when she doesn’t do CARTWHEELS for them.

Also, to be honest, some women really have low self esteem, just like some men, and they radiate mean vibes, but the interesting thing I’ve found is that the meanest girls are usually not the hottest ones! Which makes sense, because the hotties have more validation from people that makes the hottie feel good about herself.

The crazy thing is that once you ENTER the reality of a hottie, you start to understand that they are not being ARROGANT so much


You would have SIMILAR arrogance/standards if women everywhere were creeping you out by wanting to be with you without even

KNOWING you. Yeah, you THINK it would be cool, but imagine this happened 24/7, and imagine the women were NOT hot.

You would start to INSTINCTIVELY learn to separate the DESIRABLES FROM THE undesirables. It wouldn’t be a LOGICAL

process, it would be EMOTIONAL, it would be INSTANT.

If a woman didn’t FEEL good, you would REJECT HER FAST. That’s the only way you would be able to deal with the ocean of attention you were getting.

Only a FEW would make it, only the TOP few who made EMOTIONAL IMPACT would make it to the “interview” stage, and only the top of the top would make it “all the way”.

And of course, all this would make you SHIFT your attitude, from wanting sex, to wanting to CUT DOWN on all the sexual partner potential applicants. You would SCREEN women like crazy, you would have to learn to “HOLD OUT” or you would end up having sex 24/7, with everyone.


Of course, women having these “high standards” and “arrogance” only MAKE the problem WORSE, because this type of behaviour implies SCARCITY and SUPERIORITY, so most guys CHASE EVEN HARDER.

And they CHASE without even having a clue of how to BEHAVE attractively in every other sense. It’s not just the CHASING that is wrong, but the entire act is wrong – the clothing, the behaviours, the neediness, the total predictability, the total lack of originality, and the TOTALLY WRONG EMPHASIS on trying to prove all the things you mentioned, such as “having a great job, being a great compromising person, having a great degree, etc.”

Of course, all those things like a great job are GOOD THINGS, it’s just that on their own, they are not going to get you ATTRACTION. And being a CRUEL and BORING JERK is not going to attract most women.

Our current society has allowed women to SHINE, and yet has told men to metaphorically castrate themselves and actually be SUBMISSIVE to women, by maintaining standards of “respect” and “courtship” that only made sense and worked in a different era when women had a very different role.

It’s amazing, as women are socially allowed to be MORE sexual (although they still have to maintain a certain public “image” that is

very strange when you think about it, and it’s important as a guy you understand this) women are MORE assertive, MORE “take what I want”, MORE demanding, MORE original with style and fashion, MORE EVERYTHING, and yet what are most MEN?

In general, they are LESS in EVERY one of those areas:

They act NON-SEXUAL with women.

They are SUBMISSIVE with women, trying to win their approval.

They are DRESSED boring.

They frame their life around how to please a woman, while the woman is busy figuring out how to make the most selfish use of her life because the guy is standing around kissing her ass no matter what she does anyway!

And all this creates a never ending negative cycle of the guy trying harder with the same wrong strategies to get a result, and the woman pushing the guy farther away, which only intensifies the guy’s attraction.


No, not at all. That change comes INSTANTLY the moment YOU change.

And I’m not talking about CHANGING who you “are”. Unless you really think you are a submissive, lowly, boring, undeserving, creature that OWES women your dignity. If you do think that, go pour a few buckets of freezing cold water over yourself every day and night until you wake up from that nightmare. Of course, consult with your doctor before doing this.





Yeah, this was a HUGE pill for me to swallow, because I just wanted to have ONE GOOD WOMAN that I could RELY upon.

You have NO CLUE how MASSIVELY this messed me UP.

It allowed any woman I seriously considered to TAKE MASSIVE ADVANTAGE of the fact that I was willing to “make it work”

because I was seriously considering the future, and I knew that to make things work, you can’t fight all the time.

It caused me to ACCEPT bullshit, to rationalize a woman’s bad behaviour, and the girls took advantage of this.

It also made me focus on LOGICAL practical things, like “spending time together”, and showing a woman I was a good long term

partner by treating her extremely well without her EARNING it. Of course, the bull*&*% of our society that says that women WANT this serious stuff also messed me up.

The lie that women WANTED the stable, secure, long term stuff, made me focus on all that, which TOTALLY ROBBED me of the power of creating DRAMA, MYSTERY, UNPREDICTABILITY, and in fact, it made me sacrifice some of my ambitions at the time because I felt it was “worth it” to be with a good woman. I also tried to be as conservative as possible, because all that “rock n roll” stuff was SINFUL and NOT RIGHT, AND not what a GOOD WOMAN would appreciate, etc.


The IRONY is that if you do the OPPOSITE, you will not only have a BLAST, but you will also GENERATE the attraction so that

women WANT the whole serious relationship thing, and the greatest IRONY of all is that at that point, you won’t give a RAT’S ASS

for a while about relationships, because you will feel so great about having so many choices, that you are not about to jump into something serious so fast.

Plus you will for a short while think women are crazy, and it will take a while for you to relax and realize that women are not crazy, it was just your PERSPECTIVE of reality was crazy. You’ll realize it was a LIE based on old modes of behaviour that were maintained for some bizarre reason, in an era where they no longer made sense.

(The reason has to do with men not wanting to come across as being evil and against the women’s movement, but the thing is, women having power should not mean YOU having NO power through being a boring, submissive, needy slave.)

So FORGET relationships, until you learn how to create ATTRACTION.

ATTRACTION requires VALUE. And most guys’ desire for a serious relationship comes from wanting to end a LACK of women

in their life. And women SENSE THIS.


It’s DIFFERENT if you KNOW you can get women, and women KNOW it, and sense it from your dominant cocky and upbeat confident vibe.

That’s why, when you already have tons of choices, you are coming from a totally different place emotionally internally, and if you still want a relationship then, and the woman is a great woman, hey go for it man.

So instead of chasing a relationship, think about how crazy that is, and what it really means about your beliefs in scarcity, and your ability to attract women.

Instead of chasing that long term thing, PUSH IT AWAY, and see how much FUN you can have NOW. This will strip away a lot of the excess LOGICAL unfun baggage you are bringing to your interactions, and it will instead bring a VITALITY to your interactions.

It will also get rid of things like jealousy or neediness or possessiveness, because you aren’t FOCUSING on that stuff, you are too busy having FUN. And the moment a woman is not FUN, you will NATURALLY, HAPPILY, NOT BE ANGRY, because it allows you to move on to another great fun woman. However usually you will find that the same woman you moved away from

is suddenly chasing you and improving her behaviour to try to impress you and win you over.

And suddenly you will see how the relationship offers come POURING in.

And you will not be jumping at these offers, you will be asking yourself things like, “Why should I get into a relationship with her” and she will try real hard to give you all the reasons!



So you see a super hottie somewhere? You’re thinking of confessing your love to her, or how great you would be to her?

What the heck does that mean? It means you think the gap between your value and her value is huge.

And that’s not good.

Not for you.

Not for her.

In fact, it’s repulsive to her.

If she sees you are busy with other women, she will like you MORE, not less.

The other thing is that this should not be an ACT.

You should be ENJOYING meeting lots of women.

The DRAMA you give women also comes from you developing all the various cool dimensions of your personality, which is a huge topic as well.

DRAMA is just another word for EMOTIONALLY COMPELLING.

I’ll end with one more important one:



You know, we are SUCH a repressed society, and it’s funny because we have SO MUCH nudity and sex around us, through advertising billboards and porn and you name it.

In fact, all this external fake sexuality seems to only push the real sexuality further into the land of repression. As if it’s okay to exist on billboards, but not in real life. In fact, the billboards often show women with “you can’t have me” expressions, which of course make them more attractive to most guys, who fall for that.

But yet, even with all this stuff around, we tend to SHUT IT OFF completely from our normal interactions. Most people dress boring. Talk boring. Boring hobbies, if any. Trying to FIT IN and CONFORM. And we are not PASSIONATE, we are not HAPPY or EXCITED except for the “official times” and places.

A good zombie society.

We don’t pursue our dreams or passions. We don’t want to take any emotional risks, not realizing that this is the biggest risk of all,

unless you want to emotionally sleep through life.

The only kind of diversity we have is ridiculous politically correct diversity, but no REAL SEXY FUN EXCITING INTRIGUING diversity. Everyone is a wannabe or a copycat.

So instead, dress in the coolest clothing YOU find, and don’t be afraid to make a dirty joke or even tease her that she is trying to get you into bed. You see, that’s what women have been doing to guys for the longest time, and it was totally cool, so now it’s time

to take back the frame, because the reality is that it IS the time to do it, for the scales have shifted.

The greatest irony is that women find all this EXCITING, so it’s time to get started giving women and yourself the good times that you both deserve!


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About Bobby Rio I'm Bobby Rio, one of the founders of TSB. I tend to write about what is on my mind so you'll find a mix of self development, social dynamics and dating articles/experiences.  For a collection of some of my favorite articles check them out.

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