Cliff’s List Newsletter 8/04/07
Cliff’s list newsletters has been a staple of the community for almost 10 years now. It has last that long for good reason. Its a great read. Cliff always packs these newsletters with a mix of useful information, examples, field reports, product reviews, and the latest technology in the Pick Up community.
This issue includes a review of Tyler Durden’s workshop, along with highlights from the event. The issue includes Carlos Zuma telling us how we should answer when a girl says, “tell me about your last relationship.” There is a review of a Frank Kermit book called “Im a man, thats my job.” It sounds like a real interesting book. Some good examples and semi field reports from Dane, out of the Kansas City Lair. Dane has some great flirting tips to share. Some good stuff on kino escalation. There is also a ton of other stuff worth reading.
Check out the latest issue of Cliff’s List Newsletter
Review of Tyler’s “Blueprint” Super Conference in NYC
“att raction, authenticity and deep identity level change”
I just returned from an awesome weekend in NYC attending Tyler’s
Blueprint Super Conference and what is most motivating me to write
this review is how utterly impressed I was by the presence,
charisma and profound transformation that I witnessed in Tyler. I
have got to give the man all the credit in the world and he has
earned it all the way.
I remember in the past listening to Tyler and sensing his profound
understanding of the game. But often his ideas were disconnected
and hard to link together. No more. Clearly, the massive amount of
work he has done to write his book has resulted in an ability to
communicate his ideas with astounding coherence.
Obviously, I cannot hope to recreate 24 hours of material in a
short review. Indeed to sum up the core message, it sounds almost
trite, hackneyed but nevertheless true: it’s all in our heads and
no amount of external fluff is going to fix the needy, greedy holes
in our souls.
Tyler managed to put a few recurring myths to rest once and for
all. For example, can we all finally get that LOOKS DO NOT MATTER
??? the pernicious belief that looks, money, prestige, etc., are in
and of themselves the key to att ractiveness must be presently
smashed and for good.Â What works is the deep, powerful core
self-validation and confidence that the Steve P’s and Stephane’s
have been drilling into us for years.
Social Conditioning, the media and our own fraked up heads have
reduced our natural, God-given self-esteem to rubbles.
Men respond to VISUAL cues – we see the hottie and that’s all she
wrote. We MISTAKENLY PROJECT onto women that they respond the same
way. They don’t. Women respond to BEHAVIORAL cues. A man who walks
with ease through the world, who takes what he wants and whose
inner turmoils (to borrow Toecutter’s phrase) have been resolved.
For that man, the words “let’s go” are virtually all he needs.
Humour, DHV’s connection, rapport, the right thing to say, etc.,
etc., are all effortless byproducts of this state!
Furthermore, while women draw state from their environment (why
they love clubs), men draw it internally. We must learn to
self-generate state! Because a woman’s state is (generally)
dependent or at least greatly influenced by external stimuli, she
is prone to the roller coaster emotionalism that so often defines
her. That is why she is so att racted to the “rock” of a man’s
internal self validation and consistency.
But what is a shattered, frightened, insecure newbie to do? What if
you don’t have that confidence? Tyler’s brilliant suggestion was to
not try to have confidence but rather to develop the INDIFFERENCE
that comes from being blown out enough to find it amusing. To get
to the point of realizing that it really doesn’t matter what she
thinks. Remember Brent’s famous insight? “… the difference that
makes a difference is indifference” and it is achieved by frying
the circuits from going out and approaching. (Anybody care to wing
with Big G let me know!)
For me, a big part of my journey has also been to come to believe
that all of this is possible. That ONS are possible. That five
minute pulls are possible. (Over the weekend I was astounded at how
the universe was sending me a message to this effect: in every bar
or club I entered, there on every single door was written in big
bold letters “PULL”!)
(See the offer from Real Social Dynamics below for free workshops
for subscribers of Cliff’s List)
Carlos Xuma (http://tinyurl.com/22jwuh):
“Tell me about your last relationship…”
Those six words can strike fear into the heart of just about any
The truth is that women LOVE to ask this question, and men HATE to
Why? What’s the big deal?
Well, I believe that both sides know what’s going on here, but only
the woman usually knows how to handle it, while the guy simply
reacts in the worst way possible…
(And REACTING is always the worst response to any situation.)
Let’s peek in on a couple whose conversation was going well until…
HER: “Tell me about your last relationship…”
HIM: “Oh, uh, my last relationship. Yeah. Uh, it was … okay.
She was nice and all, but she and I just didn’t get along so great
at the end. We met right here, as a matter of fact. We went out for
drinks, we dated for about a year. She started getting weird in the
last few weeks. She would call me late at night when I was out, and
ask me where I was. She could be a real bitch, too.
*&%$# unbelievable. Man, I’m so glad I’m out of THAT situation.
Sooo…. Want another drink?”
Okay, let’s break this down…
Why did she ask him this question?
Primarily to find out all those delicious things he gave away in
that totally jaw-dropping reply. Yes, it was a ‘test,’ but it was
one that she knew would yield her some high-octane results in terms
of inside information.
Let’s see what kind of “hidden intel” she got from his response:
1) Conflicting stories. He tries to put a nice spin on it, but ends
up falling victim to his own emotions when he starts reliving it in
his head as he explains it to her. He goes from saying she was nice,
to how they didn’t get along so well at the end, to how she was
weird, to how she was a bitch.
This kind of changing story signals her that not only are there
issues here, there is a definite lack of truth-telling. i.e., trust
2) As a result of the previous slide down angry hill, she decides
that he is definitely not “over” his ex. Notice how he gave a
timeline there? “Last few weeks…” In her mind, this woman has
already started to eliminate him.
Remember that att ractive women are actively LOOKING for reasons to
count you out of their lives. (And by this same reason, only
DESPERATE women are looking for reasons to pull you into their
lives. Beware!) You must avoid giving her any reasons to eliminate
you before you’ve been able to make an emotional impact.
3) His emotional reaction at the end of the story (“*&%$#
unbelievable. Man, I’m so glad I’m out of THAT situation…”) says
that he’s got some ANGER to manage.
By the same token that women want what other women want, the LAST
thing a woman wants is what another woman has thrown away.
Declaring your anger like this makes you more unatt ractive than
Billy Bob Thornton in a speedo.
4) When a woman calls a man late at night asking where he is, the
odds are (unless she’s a stalker or psycho) that there were some
real trust issues in that relationship. Another red flag goes up.
5) He OVER answered. He went into WAY more detail than was required
by the situation. Over-explanation seems patently false and hinky,
and usually smells like a lie.
So how do you answer her question the right way…?
First of all, make sure you’ve laid to rest all your emotional
baggage regarding any ex-girlfriends of yours. All it takes is a
few beers and the wrong question, and you’re chasing her as she’s
running out the door.
LET IT GO.
If you find yourself caught up in obsessively angry thoughts about
your ex, seek a little help, and definitely don’t start dating yet.
We’ve got enough loose cannons out there, thankyouverymuch.
Next step: Take a few minutes to PREPARE in your mind right now how
you will answer this if asked. (The percentage of guys who actually
do this is appallingly low.)
A good, generic response to her might be something like this:
“You know, it was really great while it lasted. We had a lot of fun
times, but in the end, we discovered we just weren’t right for each
other. I still care about her, she’s a great person, but now I’m
looking for someone who has the right stuff for me.”
You don’t want to duck the question, or give a half-answer like,
“Oh it was fine.” A woman will sense that you’re hiding something
Just be up-front, clear, and positive about the message and you’ll
handle this particular test question easily.
Then move on to a new topic. Do NOT let her dwell here and play
therapist with you. Tell her, and then get on with more positive
conversation about the possibilities that could be happening right
Here’s a nugget of gold that most guys will pass over… One thing
I do when talking to a woman is find a way to tease her about the
question while letting her know I know what’s going on. After I’ve
answered with the response above, I’ll also say:
“So if you’re trying to figure out if I’ve got issues, or I’m the
kind of guy that can commit, I could tell you about my two year
relationship with…Uhhh, on second thought, you’re not going to
get my secrets that easy. I need to know some more about YOU.”
That sneaks in the right amount of qualification (because I REALLY
do want to know more about her). And it allows me to casually
mention a long-term relationship. AND it allows me to call her a
little on her question.
The point here is to think about your responses BEFORE you’re put
on the spot.
Review of my I’m A Man, That’s My Job book (Frank’s site is at
www.franktalks.com but you can buy his book here:
I have bought all of Frank Kermit’s books on pre-order… and I
have found them all useful. This book, while slightly different in
scope and character to his previous two, did not disappoint.
“I’m a Man, That’s My Job: The Philosophy of a Seducer” is
structured as part workbook, part coming- of-age story, part
textbook. Although a lot of the material is familiar to someone who
is a student of dating and relationships, there are nuggets of gold
which make this book more than worth the price of admission. In my
reading, the book deals with two core areas: theories of inner game
and the process of self-change.
Kermit’s Ten Rules of Relationships and his theories of dominance
are spot-on with what I’ve observed as, I myself have gone through
the process he outlines in his book. In particular, reading his
list of the Ten Emotional Needs of Men was like removing
the veil from the elusive obvious. I read the list and kept saying,
“yes, that’s true…yes, and that one too.”
When he releases his book devoted solely to this topic, I’ll read
it the moment it arrives…. and lend a second copy to the girl(s)
that I’m with at the time.
I could continue, but you’ll just have to read the book for
The second topic, that of self-change, gives important advice that
I haven’t seen covered by anyone else. His theory of development
from Loser to “Learned Natural” explained a lot of things for me.
As a “Learned Seducer in Training” on his way to “Seducer”, I
always wondered why many men who started off on the journey stopped
halfway through this path of ultimate riches. Now I know.
It was his section on “Beware Your Mentors”, however, that gave me
a truly great epiphany. I often found that advice from the various
gurus would work, but then a sticking point that I never had before
would arise. Kermit’s theory explains what you must do and what you
As I’ve continued to develop myself out of recognition from my
pre-change persona, I’ve found Kermit’s books to be of immense
value. “I’m a Man, That’s My Job” is no exception.
Keep up the good work, Frank… and keep writing!
Dane (from the Kansas City Lair forum
I really like this board but at times it’s almost way too serious,
maybe a little dry. In an attempt to lighten it up a little, let’s
hear your most embarrassing pickup/relationship/sex related
moments. I have three stories that come to mind right away. I’ll
share one and then post the other two after a couple of other
I’ll try not to get too long-winded here…
I met HBA, a solid 9.5 with a face that reminded me of a hot beach
girl and a body that remains to be the nicest I’ve ever violated.
Seeing this girl on top of me was really a moment of enlightenment,
it’s when I realized that I had truly broken through, away from the
drab land of the reforming AFC and into the amazing world of the
PUA, where the puissy flows like wine. Yes, her body looked that
good, but I’m getting a little ahead of myself…
Just a week after number closing her I met another girl that I
escalated with quickly and ended up in a committed relationship
with. I still studied and did some basic field work – basically
gaming to a number close and ejecting. But I made sure to make
occasional contact with HBA, mainly through text messaging.
A year later my relationship was over, and I wasted no time
proceeding with HBA. I sent her a text using my little text
technique, found here:
“Danes Magic Text technique, copied from the KC Forum I haven’t
shared as much as I probably should on here, so I’m gonna throw out
one of my favorite little things to do.
I’ve used this MANY times with great success. I’ve tested sending
different types of messages and found that the ones I’m about to
use have worked the best. Do this to a woman that you want thinking
about you sexually or to one you haven’t talked to for a while, but
it’s best to only use it on girls that you’ve got at least some
comfort with, I wouldn’t try it on a new target that you number
closed with and haven’t really contacted otherwise.
Another cool thing about this is that it works well on girls that
you are friends with and you want to take things to the next level.
What I do is I write 2 text messages. The first one says something
along the lines of: “Haha – oops! That was meant for someone else.
Sorry!”Â After you write this don’t send it but instead save it.
Now write another text message with whatever you want the girl
thinking. I’ve noticed that it’s good to go sexual here, but you
also want it a soft sexual, nothing dirty or very explicit. Here’s
exactly what I use – I read a variation of it somewhere (Juggler
maybe?) – credit where it’s due…anyways:
“You know, I’ve been thinking about you, about how I’d like to
slowly kiss you over your entire body, and how much you would love it….”
Now send this text, or something similar, to your target.
Immediately afterwards, go back to your “apology” draft and send
that. You wanna send the draft text before she sends a response to
the first, so make it pretty quick.
The first text does multiple things – it shows preselection and that
you have options, plus it makes her aware that you are a sexual
person – if she wasn’t thinking about sex with you before then it
ran through her mind when she got your first text, and the
take-away just put her over the top. Once you “take back” the dirty
text she’ll begin to realize how bad she did want it to be meant
for her…Game on…”
She responded positively, and we started to hang out a bit, but for
some reason I failed to escalate the kino like I should have, so I
came up with this:
“Kino Escalation for the not-so-receptive, by Dane
Copied from the KC Forum
As you all know, most of the time kino should be a progression, a
natural escalation from an innocent first touch all the way through
sex. So what do you do when you come across that rare HB that is
non-receptive to your touch early on?
I’ve only had this happen twice, I attempt to escalate and she goes
cold, so I stop. I step back and drop all kino and start again, but
again am stopped at the same point. Both girls ended up being fairly
shy and needed lots of comfort before I could escalate to sex, but
I used the same method to get both of them used to touching and
When you’re out, just casually bend over and untie her shoe. Give a
sly smile and just proceed with what you were doing. A little bit
later, 20-30 mins, do it again. Wait until you’ve got her isolated,
your house or her house or at least away from a crowd to do it a
third time – this time she will likely go for yours.
This is where the little struggle begins. You can do this little
game spontaneously throughout the day and turn it into a full-blown
wrestling match if you want…and there you go. You took her from
unresponsive physically to rolling on the ground and breathing heavy
with you just by acting like a little 3rd grader….
If anyone else has similar methods for those rare
less-then-receptive females let’s hear ’em…”
And it worked like a charm.
Skip ahead a few days. I am invited over to watch a movie. We go to
her den and she sits at one end of the couch. I decide to go ahead
and take care of this little problem by helping myself to the bed
upstairs, where I grabbed a blanket and two pillows. I went back
downstairs and laid on the floor, placing the extra pillow next to
me and saying nothing to her. She caught on shortly and came down to
the floor. I immediately began escalating.
Skip ahead a little bit – all clothes are off and I’m kissing her
inner thighs. I lightly brush my lips across her wet little treasure
box as I go back and forth from one thigh to the other, finally
working my way to the middle.
Now, at this point, as I work to make her back arch and her legs
shake, I usually take my opportunity to open and don a rubber, it’s
here that I can do it without interrupting the seduction process –
stealthy, ninja-like.Â Well, most of the time. I have a plastic
condom case that holds two. I’d grabbed it from my pants pocket
earlier and slid it onto the floor by her legs – I wanted it within
reach when I was down there.
This is where my first problem came up. I had unknowingly slid the
case under the couch. I felt around for it for a few minutes before
I thought to check under there, so I pulled away from her slowly and
ran my hands down her legs as I sat up, eyeing her up and down.
Under the guise of checking out her body I swept my hand under the
edge of the couch and hit pay dirt.
So I go back down and attempt to open the condom case only to find
the lid snuggly in place. DAMMIT. I rock the little lid back and
forth as I start to pull hard, thinking “you piece of s-word you’re
going in the trash when I’m done” when POP! The lid comes off almost
violently. I still hear moaning and notice her eyes closed, she must
not have noticed, thankfully.
Here’s where the real trouble begins. The frustration (and logical
problem solving) of the moment has taken its toll. That’s right. My
little buddy has withdrawn from his hard-enough-to-break-concrete
state, now hanging much like a wet noodle.
Anyone who’s been in this situation knows what happens here – it
snowballs. You start to focus on what happened and why you aren’t
quite up to the task, while simultaneously screaming “FIX! FIX!! YOU
BAST ARD!” in your head. All this does is make it worse. The more I
start to try to “will” it up the more reclusive it becomes.
Through all of this I continue my oral until she gets off. Seeing
HBA’s artistic display of orgasmic beauty seems to help a little.
Soon after, she sits halfway up and grabs my head. She’s ready for
it. It’s not ready for her. She notices and reaches down, begins
caressing. Wow, she’s pretty good at this, but I’m totally out of it
now. My mood is pretty much shot. I’m telling myself “you’ve got a
smo king ho t girl here that you’ve been waiting a year to frak – do
what you can. Fashion a splint with duct tape and a popsicle stick
if you have to, just don’t let it end like this”.
Eventually, EVENTUALLY, I get my “chi” back and the little guy
comes out of his shell, but by this time it’s just awkward for both
of us. She lies down and we begin to go at it but it’s just not
really happening for either of us. We’re both just kinda doing it
because the opportunity is there. The mood has dissipated. I
eventually just stop. I don’t get off, she doesn’t get off again.
There was a silence.
It probably lasted 30 seconds, but it seemed like 30 years.
I, in my everlasting quest to be alpha in all situations, show no
signs of being bothered by it. Not on the outside. On the inside,
however, I was already seeing myself diving off the edge of a tall
cliff. How can it get any worse? Oh but it can…
She broke the silence and asked if I’d like something to drink, then
she went upstairs as I started to get dressed. I stood in her den
trying to think about what to do here. Do I bring it up? Do I act
like nothing at all happened? Do I hand in my man card?
As I stare off in an er ec tile dys funct ion-induced dreaming
session I begin to get a wicked itch just inside of my right
nostril. I rub the outside with the back of my hand but to no avail.
One more attempt but no cigar. It really itches by now and I can’t
take it, I’ve got to do it – I have to go in after it. I quickly
place the tip of my finger a mere quarter-inch inside my nostril
and gently rub, turning my body at the same time to face the steps –
and the girl.
I said nothing. Nothing at all. What do I say? Do I keep quiet?
Then she’ll think I was picking my nose. Do I tell her I had an itch
up there? Yeah right, she would then laugh and think that not only
was I picking my nose but I was lying about it too. Looking back I
should have pulled out my finger and casually wiped it down her arm.
If anyone field test’s that let me know…
Maybe it was just a bad night. I’ve been blessed so far in that most
seductions have gone slick and smooth, almost flawless really. Maybe
even blessed to the point that I can handle an occasional night of
having condom problems, not staying hard, and getting busted
“picking my nose” all in one session. Then again…
HBA became a good frakbuddy for about 3 months, until she started
getting too attached. What’s even funnier is that my second most
embarrassing moment not only happened with the same girl but it
occurred the very next time we hooked up. We’ll get into that one
There are some issues I’m having with the craft. My two biggest
sticking points are “s-word tests” and learning how to develop new
routines. The most pressing issue, I feel, isÂ the “s-word test”.
I have a hard time with being an as s (years of experience to the
contrary is hard to break i guess) i just can’t think quick
enough to come back to some stuff she comes up with. Secondly, it
would be nice to be able to come up with some new routines. I mean,
I don’t want to be a bot forever, I want to do my own s-word.
Anyway, if you have any ideas on how to deal with these
issues, it sure would be appreciated.
Investing in the Home Study Course by att ract&Date
(http://www.attractanddate.com/) was definitely a step forward in
my learning curve.
Before the HSC I was approaching like a machine, sometimes even 8
hours a day and getting tons of (hard) rejections, 1-3 dates (Day
2s) a week and a few instant dates.
What I get now is almost the same, but in a lot less time. I’m
usually going out for less than 2 hours and every single time I get
instant dates, sometimes up to 5 in one day.
Now is my fourth week since getting the HSC and I’m constantly
feeling happy and progressing on a daily basis. Last week I la id a
co-worker of mine.
I’d also sometimes approach during my daily activities (not when I
went out to sarge) and still get instant dates. My rejection rate
is very low, and girls are at least smiling when I approach them.
What I learned from the home study course was that I have to
concentrate on the positive reactions that I get and immediately
forget the bad ones – to celebrate every victory no matter how
little it is;
How to properly stop girls on the street (this one was so
enlightening after having thousands of rejections), and approach
them in any possible situation; words almost don’t matter if you
have your non-verbal channels subcommunicating the right things,
thus stopping girls with any non-sense and still hooking their
attention, att racting and engaging them in conversation;
How to keep the obstacles interested enough to not pull away your
target girl; how to deliver a 100% congruent compliment and what to
talk about with girls – both skills build massive amounts of
att raction, just like high octane routines do but the difference
is that a routine can build the att raction once and by talking
about her emotions you can keep her interested for a long time.
Besides that, I got an idea how the rhythm of a conversation on an
instant date is flowing – it’s a very important thing and you can
understand it only when you see it.
Also, att ract & Date’s support is great – my first half hour
session lasted almost 1 hour because Ranko truly wanted me to get a
thorough understanding of his teachings, after that we kept in touch
via email and he was also very supportive and encouraging!
Even though the HSC is not a magic pill and Ranko & Co can teach
you and they do it very good.
Do girls leave you confused as to whether or not they like you?
Let's face it. Girl's don't make it easy for you. She will often send mixed signals leaving you unable to tell if she is being friendly or flirty. If you read her signals wrong you risk rejection and embarrassment. Or worse, you blow it with a girl who wanted to kiss you.
Here is a simple and innocent move that will instantly tell you if you're in the friend zone, or if she's waiting for you to kiss her.
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About Bobby Rio I'm Bobby Rio, one of the founders of TSB. I tend to write about what is on my mind so you'll find a mix of self development, social dynamics and dating articles/experiences. For a collection of some of my favorite articles check them out.